Pastor C. T. Russell Argues in Favor of this Proposition, while the Rev. Dr. E. L. Eaton Opposes It

Every seat was occupied and the overflow packed all the aisles and the open space at the entrance of the Allegheny Carnegie hall last evening when the discussion of the fourth proposition in the joint debate between the Rev. Dr. E. L. Eaton, pastor of the North Avenue Methodist Episcopal church, and Pastor C. T. Russell of the Bible House congregation opened.

The subject last evening was, "The Scriptures clearly teach that only the 'saints' of this gospel age will share in the 'first resurrection; 'but that vast multitudes will be saved in and by the subsequent resurrection."

Pastor Russell had the affirmative in this discussion and, under the rules, opened with an address lasting 50 minutes. Dr. Eaton followed with an address of similar length, and then each was given 10 minutes for a reply to the arguments the other brought forward.

The Rev. John A. Jayne, pastor of the Observatory Hill Christian church, was chairman of last evening's meeting. Devotional exercises lasting 15 minutes preceded the opening at 8 o'clock.

The large audience was very attentive throughout the evening. The interest in the debate seems to grow with the discussion. The next discussion will take place tomorrow evening at 8 o'clock and the last one on Sunday afternoon at 3 o'clock.

The congregational singing has been a feature of the debates which appears to have been much enjoyed. Prof. B. Frank Walters of the Bible House congregation is the organist and E. P. Russell is the preceptor. [HG135] Pastor Russell, in affirming the proposition for the evening's debate, said: I feel, dear friends, that the topic of the resurrection of the dead is one of the most important doctrines in the word of God, a doctrine which, it seems to me, has not been granted its due place of importance in recent years, a doctrine, however, which we find is very prominent indeed in the word of God. From our standpoint, as heretofore presented, we understand the Scriptures to teach that the dead are really dead: that they are not alive in any sense of the word, except in the sense that our heavenly Father predetermined a resurrection of the dead, predetermined that He should accomplish this matter through a redemption which would pay the ransom price for our Father Adam's sin, and thus secure to all his posterity who failed in him and who came under death conditions, an opportunity for return to life; as the apostle says: "By one man sin entered into the world, and death as the result of sin, and thus death passed upon all men."

In God's due time He sent forth His Son, that He might redeem us, that He might purchase us with His own precious blood. The penalty upon the race was death, extinction; but, in view of this intention on the part of our heavenly Father, death was always spoken of in the past, preceding our Lord's coming, as a sleep. The Lord expresses it thus to His people, and intimates in this way His sure intention of bringing back all mankind from the tomb, and all those who believed God expressed their confidence in the Almighty, in His promises, and in His power, when they spoke of one another as falling asleep. We read you various texts of Scripture on a previous occassion, showing that this word "sleep" is generally applied throughout the Scriptures, not only to the good, but also to the forward, that they all are said to have fallen asleep: "They slept with their father."

We would like to have you notice that the Scriptures teach that the penalty for sin is death of the soul! "The soul that sinneth it shall die." And so it was because the soul was under condemnation that our Lord is said to have "poured out His soul unto death." We do not mean by soul any abstruse or obscure thing; we mean sentient being, that which the Scriptures everywhere represent the soul to be. The Scriptures represent that all souls are under sin, under the sentence of death. You are a soul; I am a soul; every other member of Adam's posterity is a soul, and each one shares in Father Adam's sin and each soul of us is under condemnation of death. Who can redeem his soul from the power of the grave? Who can give to God a ransom for his brother, or even himself? No one. So we are all helpless, except as the heavenly Father provides the great Redeemer, and the Redeemer gave the full price.

As it was your life and my life that was forfeited, your soul and my soul that was condemned, so our Lord Jesus poured out His soul unto death. "He made His soul an offering for sin." It was not merely our Lord's body, you see, but the Lord's soul; and so Peter, in speaking of our Lord's resurrection, does not speak merely of the resurrection of the body but, quoting the prophet David, declares "His soul was not left in hades, neither did God suffer His Holy One to see corruption."

We would like to have you notice that the resurrection we preach, which the Scriptures teach, is the resurrection of the soul, the being, the coming again of those beings that now go down into death. To preach the resurrection of the body would imply, we think, an absurdity. If the Scriptures taught it we would be ready to accept even an absurdity, but the Scriptures do not teach that the same body which goes down is to be resurrected. Your body, my body, will return to the dust as it was; it will have no preference, and the atoms which compose your and my bodies are not necessary to our heavenly Father in restoring our souls, in bringing us to being again. There are plenty of atoms of matter, if he wished to create us again of the earth earthy, without using the ones which composed the body at death.

Let me call your attention to the fact that our Lord Jesus was the first one to rise from the dead' the first one to experience resurrection. I know that we sometimes hear people speak of those whom Elijah and Elisha brought back to life again, and refer to these as resurrections, but not so the Scriptures. We sometimes speak of the resurrection of Lazarus, or the son of the widow of Nain, or Jairus' daughter, but the Scriptures never do. They were merely awakenings. The word "resurrection" has in it something more than that. The Greek word rendered "resurrection" in the English is "anastasis," and anastasis signifies to bring up again. Lazarus was not brought up again; he was brought up to a measure of life, but the measure of life he had when he died was only a mere drop of life, as it were.

You remember how the Lord spoke of the condition in which all mankind is, when he said, "Let the dead bury their dead." All are under condemnation, under the divine sentence, and their condition of existence is not full life.

When the Lord called Lazarus forth from the tomb He did not call him down from heaven, because he was not in heaven; and He did not call him up from some [HG136] place of Paradise; because he did not go to Paradise. Lazarus was dead; or to use the illustration so common with the Lord and others, "Lazarus sleepeth; I go that I may awake him out of sleep"' a sleep that otherwise would have lasted until the dawn of the millennial day when the general resurrection would be due, but a sleep that was interrupted temporarily, and Lazarus came back to a measure of life such as he had previously. But he was still dead, except as he could be counted alive by faith in Jesus Christ.

Let me quote some of the Scriptures which prove that our Lord Jesus was the first to rise from the dead. If I establish this point, that our Lord was the first to rise from the dead, it proves what I contend for, that these others were not resurrections, but merely temporary awakenings. Acts 26:23, "That Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first which should rise from the dead." 1 Cor. 15:22, 23, "For as all in Adam die, even so all in Christ shall be made alive; every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits, afterward they that are Christ's at His coming." Col 1:10: "He is the head of the body, the church, which is the beginning, the first born from the dead' that in all things He might have the preeminence." Heb. 6:19, 20: "Which hope we have as an anchor to the soul, both sure and steadfast; which entereth into that within the vail, whither the forerunner is forever entered"' He is the forerunner, the first One to arrive, and we follow Him, but do not precede Him. Rev. 1:5: "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first-begotten from the dead."

These Scriptures clearly establish the fact that our Lord was the first to rise from the dead; consequently these others were merely temporary awakenings.

Coming back to Lazarus, we remind you of the words of the Lord in His comfort to Martha and Mary, and I am sure His words have comforted many others since in sorrow. Jesus said not, Thy brother is in paradise, nor in hades; what did He say? "Thy brother shall rise again;" He points them to the real hope. Mary and Martha were well instructed in the matter, and they said, "We know that he shall rise again in the last day." They had faith in the resurrection. Jesus assured them that He was the resurrection, that is to say, that resurrection power was in Him; He was the one Through whom the dead should have their life, and that they might have something in the present time. He proceeded to the awakening of Lazarus as an illustration of His power, to be exercised in full at His second advent. If Lazarus was at this time in paradise or heaven, or any good, desirable place, do you think the Lord would have brought him back again, and represent that He was conferring a favor upon Lazarus and the sisters? I tell you nay!

I remind you of the teaching of the apostles, that wherever they went their preaching was, as it is recorded in the Acts; "they went preaching Jesus and the resurrection." That was the hope – Jesus and His sacrifice, as the basis of all the hope for the future life. Without Jesus and the ransom sacrifice there could be no hope of a resurrection. The dead were all under the legal sentence; the Great Judge had sentenced Father Adam and all his posterity to death. They could not have life, could not be restored to life, until first of all a ransom had been paid, and therefore Jesus, as the great Redeemer, who gave Himself as the ransom for all, who died that we might live, came upon the scene. He suffered and died, and following this was His resurrection. The resurrection to mankind, as a result of this glorious work, will be the fulfillment of this great plan of God; the fulfillment will be the salvation.

There is no salvation, as we pointed out on a previous occasion, in the present time, except by faith, and so the apostle says to you and me who believe, and in proportion as we believe, "We are saved by hope." You have a good hope toward God; you believe that Christ died for our sins; therefore hoping in Him as the Redeemer, you hope that there is future probation in God's plan; you expect to have a share in the resurrection which God has provided through Jesus. You have only the hope now. You are waiting for the resurrection, waiting for the time when "the salvation shall be brought unto you at the revelation of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," as the apostle expresses it.

Mark the words of the apostle when he was on trial before some of his enemies; he said: "For the hope of the resurrection of the dead I am called in question"' it is because I believe in the resurrection of the dead that I am here a prisoner. Not very many get into trouble now because they believe in the resurrection, because the doctrine has been crowded out by unscriptural ones to the effect that when a man dies he has got more alive than he ever was before. We see the great importance of the doctrine of the resurrection of the dead when we see the fact that a man who dies is really dead. Again he says: "We have a hope toward God that there shall be a resurrection, both of the just and the unjust." (Acts 24:15) A hope toward God! We see where there is a hope for the just, that they shall get a blessing through the resurrection; but where will there be one for the unjust? We will see when we come to it that the resurrection of the unjust is the great blessing that God has in store for mankind in general [HG137] in the millennium.

We call your attention also to the Scriptures which speak of the dead as being prisoners in the great prison house, the tomb, waiting for Emmanuel, to take to Himself His great power and open the prison doors, as He himself applied the prophecy of Isa. 61 to Himself, "The spirit of the Lord God hath anointed me . . . to open the prison doors and set at liberty the prisoners, and them that are bound." In the great millennial age He will say to the prisoners of death, Show yourselves. (Isa. 42:6-10) This is a pictorial way of stating the resurrection of the dead.

Now we come to the one chapter in all the Bible which more than any other sets forth this doctrine of the resurrection, the 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians. Begin at the (12th verse). "Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead, how say some amongst you that there is no resurrection of the dead." I know of a good many who have been led so far astray that even in our day they deny the resurrection, because they could see no reason nor use in it. Their argument is that resurrection would mean a return to mortal bodies, and they say, will we not be glad to shuffle off this mortal coil, and shall we be glad to get it back again? But we answer that they are wrong in supposing that death had brought life more abundant to them; the resurrection is what will bring life, the life giver is the Redeemer, who at His second advent will give life, as at the first advent He purchased the right to do so with His own precious blood.

"If Christ be not raised ye are yet in your sins." How much stress our Lord lays on this matter of the Lord's resurrection! If our Lord had died and had not been raised from the dead, we have no Savior. When He arose from the dead, that is the assurance that He is now able to deliver those that trust in Him and who wait for his time of deliverance.

"Then they which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished." Perished! If they are gone to Paradise, or gone to heaven, could there be any question about perishing?

They are in the tomb, and if Christ has not been raised, if He has not redeemed us and if He is not risen from the tomb, how could He ever accomplish the great deliverance which is to be carried out in due time, according to the Scriptures? So the apostle says, if Christ is not raised we are still in our sins; He has made no atonement acceptable to God, and additionally all who fell asleep trusting in Jesus are perished.

"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first-fruits of them that slept." You never have a first-fruits unless you expect after fruits, and just so surely as he declares that Christ is a first-fruits so surely there is to be the after fruitage, and that means the after resurrection. "By a man came death, and by a man came the resurrection of the dead." Adam brought the death penalty by his disobedience under the divine law. The Lord brought the blessed opportunity of resurrection by His obedience, by giving His life as a ransom of Father Adam, and thus purchasing the whole race of Adam who were redeemed by the precious blood of Christ.

The apostle then discusses the matter of the body, and says, "Some men will say, How. are the dead raised? With what body do they come. He is not speaking of how are bodies raised up, but "How are the dead raised up." He is speaking of the soul, the being, not speaking of the body; what kind of bodies will they have when they are resurrected, His answer is, "O foolish person, that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die." He is now applying this to nature; if you plant corn you do not expect to see the same grain of corn come up; but you will expect to find other grains of the same kind. In death you bury the human being; but you are not to expect the same body which you put down. The same body which goes into the grave will not come up, but the being, the entity, will be the same' God has preserved it in his own power, and He will clothe it with a body in due time.

The apostle proceeds to note what God's good pleasure is concerning the various features of the resurrection. "All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of fish, another flesh, of beasts, and another of birds. There are bodies celestial and bodies terrestrial, but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another." Here he suggests that in God's plan there are two classes of beings, which our dear brother mentioned the other evening as dichotomy and trichotomy. The dichotomy are those who have merely the animal nature, the trichotomy are those who have been begotten of the spirit "from above," and who therefore have the start of the new nature, and who, according to the apostle, are classed as new creatures in Christ. These new creatures are spiritual, and spiritual promises apply to them and belong to them. But God has a special blessing also for the dichotomy; not a blessing with the church, for only those begotten of the spirit shall attain spiritual blessings; they will not share in the first resurrection, because in the latter only the kings and priests of this gospel age shall have any share (Rev. 20), but there is a glory of terrestrial, earthly nature, which is to be attained by the natural man in the later [HG138] resurrection. The apostle here wishes to show that two kinds of seed are sown, and two kinds of fruitage shall result' God will give to each kind of seed his own kind of body; to the natural man will be the natural body, similar to the one he has now; and to the new creature will be the spiritual body, the heavenly body, like unto Christ the glorious head.

In 1 Cor. 15:42, after the apostle describes the characteristics of the first resurrection, the resurrection of the church, says: "Thus is THE resurrection of THE dead."

These emphatic words are shown by the original Greek, although they are not apparent in the English translation. This is a special resurrection for a special class, the chief among the dead' they are the church, the body of Christ, faithful in Christ Jesus, who are promised a share with the Lord in the first resurrection.

The word first means properly first in order, but also implies a chief condition, a more important resurrection, implying a later resurrection of a less important character' the kind which shall come to the world in general. God's proposition, as described in this chapter (1 Cor. 15) is a spiritual body for the church, which will be different from the natural animal body, which is of the earth earthly; the church is to be changed from present earthly conditions and given bodies like unto our Lord's glorious body; or as the Apostle Peter has declared, "God hath given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, that by these we might be made partakers of the divine nature' far above angels, principalities and powers, and every name that is named, like unto our Lord and Master in His glory, and shares with Him in His glory.

"The first man (Adam) was made a living soul (an animal soul), the last Adam was made a quickening (life-giving) spirit." Christ was the last Adam and the church is to be like Him, with spiritual bodies. Then the apostle proceeds: "As was the earthly (Adam) so also are they that are earthly." As Father Adam was in His perfection, before condemnation, so will they also be of the earthly class who will share in the resurrection for the world of mankind in general. This will mean that the world will come back by resurrection processes to all that Father Adam had as the great earthly being whom God originally created. The apostle is not speaking of the heavenly resurrection; he has already spoken of that and says that all who have a share in it shall have spiritual bodies.

"Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." There was a disposition on the part of many to suppose that human beings could enter and become partakers of the glorious privileges of the spiritual kingdom, but the apostle is pointing out by inspiration that the heavenly kingdom is a spiritual one, and that those who become joint heirs with the Lord must be changed, and be spiritual, instead of being earthly, animal beings' they must partake of the divine nature in place of the human nature.

Then, "when this corruption shall have put on incorruption, and when this mortal shall have put on immortality," shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory." Was death a good thing? No! Whose victory is this? The victory of our Lord, the victory of our Heavenly Father through our Lord Jesus Christ. When will death be swallowed up? After he shall have accomplished his mission. And how long will it take to swallow up death? It will take the whole millennial age. Death will have its power until the very close of that time, for the statement is, "He must reign until he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

In Rev. 20:5 we have the statement: "The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years are finished." The prophet John, the writer, has just recounted the matter o' the first resurrection; that they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But who will they be reigning over? A dead world!

Not a world in non-existence during the thousand years, but a world which will not have attained to life, in its proper sense, until the thousand years are finished.

From God's standpoint this word "live" has a particular significance. Adam was alive before the sentence of death came, and from the moment he became a transgressor and under sentence he became a dying man instead of a living man.

That represents the condition of all the world. All have a measure of life, as they exist today, but all are in a dying, not a living, condition. They are not in the tomb, but God does not recognize them as alive. During the millennial age conditions will be reversed, and instead of the race going down more and more into degradation and sin and death and corruption, the order will be changed, and they will be rising, and rising, and rising, out of death, out of death' but they won't get out of death totally, fully, until the close of the age. They will not live, in the sense that God speaks of it, until the thousand years are finished. Then, having come to the condition of perfection, having received all that was lost, they will live again in the same sense that Father Adam lived before he transgressed. [HG139]

Our Lord referred to the same thought in John 5:25, "The hour is coming when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live."

Some of us have already heard the voice of the Son, while we were children of wrath, and from a reckoned standpoint we have begun to live, through faith in Christ. "He that believed on the Son hath life," he has a life reckoned to him, and so enjoying it by faith that it will be an everlasting life, and that the tomb will not interfere with his life. But speaking of the world of mankind in general during the millennial age, when the dead are awakened (John 5:28-29) as Lazarus was awakened, there will be an opportunity for all who have never heard the voice of the Son of Man to hear it then, and those who hear in the proper sense of obeying will continue to progress to the attainment of life, in its full sense.

"God wills that all men shall be saved, (to be preserved, that they should not be totally cut off from opportunity while in the tomb, preserved from extinction), and to come to the knowledge of the truth. The great majority are in ignorance, but God wills that all shall know, because, the apostle goes on to say, "There is one God, and one Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all to be testified (to all) in due time." When you heard the testimony your responsibility began. When the heathen shall hear their responsibility will begin. Those who will hear during the millennial age, in the sense of obeying that great prophet, teacher, Christ the Head, and the church His body, will be brought up gradually by restitution processes, until at the close of the millennial age they shall live, and those who refuse to hear the prophet' mark the words of Peter (Acts 3:23), "shall be utterly destroyed amongst the people."

Daniel gives us a picture in the 12th chapter, of the millennial conditions: "Some shall arise to life; and some to shame and everlasting contempt." The word everlasting her is from the Hebrew word "olam," which is not as strong as our English word, but is equivalent to the word "lasting." They will come forth to lasting contempt. How long will it last? As long as the contemptible conditions last. I fancy Nero, for instance, coming forth. Under the new conditions as he will see around him the evidence of righteousness he will experience shame and contempt; he will not only have contempt for himself, but the contempt of all those about him. They will recognize Nero of ancient days. But under the blessed conditions of that time, if he will hear the Son's voice, he will be assisted to righteous conditions' hewill be given the blessings of restitution processes, an opportunity to raising up to life, to an appreciation of what is right and wrong, and if he chooses the right, chooses to be on God's side, he may make progress up out of his degraded condition to the full human perfection provided in the glorious resurrection for the obedient of the world. (Great applause)

Pastor Russell said in reply: I had hoped that we should have heard more from Brother Eaton respecting the resurrection. What I have to say about the last days and last time of this age shall be said on Thursday evening. Respecting the holy spirit, I do not think our brother has read what we have to say about this, for we have said a great deal concerning the spirit and its work. I shall be pleased to send him a copy of Vol. V of the "Millennial Dawn" series, in which this matter is treated.

We fully agree with our brother that there was a partial fulfillment of Isa. 61, at our Lord's first advent, but there is much yet to be fulfilled, for our Lord did not then open the prison doors and release the prisoners, according to the prophecy.

There are blessings coming to you and me now, in a spiritual way, but these are not all that is contemplated in this text. In Acts 3:19, the Apostle Peter tells us that at the Lord's second advent will be the time for the general blotting out of sins against the race of mankind, as the opportunity for salvation is given them fully. We have a measure of release now, and we thank God for it. The brother cannot extol the privilege too highly to suit me; but the great mass of the world is still the groaning creation. The Lord's consecrated in Pittsburgh and Allegheny are but a small proportion of the population in these cities. The mass of them in these two of the most favored of the cities in the world, are still groaning in darkness, ignorance and slavery to sin, "waiting," as the apostle declares, "for the manifestation of the sons of God."

In the glorious millennial age not merely will the holy spirit come upon the few, not merely upon the "servants and handmaidens" of Joel's prophecy, but upon "all flesh." The prophet makes a distinction, saying that the former class shall have the Holy Spirit "in those days," and "all flesh" shall have its privileges "after those days." (Applause) Our brother quoted from Peter, that we are begotten again, "unto a lively hope," but the proper translation would be "a hope of life, by the resurrection of the dead." We have a hope of life, a hope of resurrection now, and are waiting for its fulfillment when salvation shall be revealed in us at the end of the trial time of this gospel age. (Applause)

Our dear brother differs from some of the standards of Methodism in respect to the meaning of parables. He is forced, you see, to lay all the stress of his argument upon this parable of the rich man and Lazarus, which we shall take up Thursday night. Dr. Adam Clark was a fairly authoritative Methodist (laugther and applause) and Dr. Adam Clark says, "A parable shall never be used for the basis of a doctrine!" (Loud applause) If there is nothing better to offer than a parable, better keep quiet! (Applause) In our brother's emphatic remarks about the thief in Paradise, I notice that he adds to the word of God considerable things that are not in the record at all. I am not charging our dear brother with any intentional duplicity. I believe the dear brother to be honest, as I also am, but we need to have our minds wide open, to see what the Lord hath spoken. It is not for Brother Eaton or myself to speak by inspiration tonight; the record is in God's word.