[HG227] Wednesday Evening, February 26, 1908.

(Chairman, Scott BONHAM, Attorney, Cincinnati, O.)

FOURTH PROPOSITION.

The Scriptures clearly teach that the first resurrection will occur at the second coming of Christ, and only the saints of this gospel age will share in it; but that in the resurrection of the unjust (Acts 24:15) vast multitudes of them will be saved.

C. T. Russell, affirmative.

L. S. White, negative.

C. T. RUSSELL'S FIRST SPEECH.

I take this opportunity to assure Brother White and this audience that my opening remarks two evenings ago were in no sense intended as jibes or slurs against my opponent. He evidently misunderstood my statement. I did not say that his arguments on the subject were idiotic and nonsensical, for the gentleman had not yet presented his arguments. How could I antagonize them? What I did say was that the idea that when a man is dead he is more alive than when he was alive is an idiotic and nonsensical idea. But I confess that I myself once believed this nonsense, as many bright and able men besides Brother White still believe it. I expressed surprise that a man of his caliber, after studying the subject, should still be willing to undertake its defense. My endeavor is to awaken all such intellects as Brother White's to a realization of the absurdity of such false reasoning which so long has held able and brilliant minds. Brother White's antagonism by no means discourages me. I remember that Saul of Tarsus once persecuted those in this way, and thought he did God service. Many persons at first so antagonistic that they burned my books have afterward become my warmest defenders, my friends and colaborers. I call to mind a Methodist minister, Mr. Rogers, of Homestead, near Pittsburgh, who, when proffered the reading of "Millennial Dawn," refused, and was so prejudiced that he declared that if it were left in his house he would burn it. Later on, in the Lord's providence, he did read it, got a blessing, and is now a colaborer in the work. I call to mind Dr. Simpson, of Allegheny, a United Presbyterian minister, who at first was terribly incensed against "Millennial Dawn," but after a careful, prayerful study of it became a firm friend of the truth. On the platform with me this evening is Brother Paul Johnson, once the pastor of one of the most prominent Lutheran churches of Columbus, Ohio. Brother Johnson was once in such opposition to the true interpretation of God's word that from the pulpit he urged those of his congregation who possessed "Millennial Dawn" to burn it. Let us hope that Brother White may yet sit down to read the "Dawns" carefully and prayerfully, and not merely in a spirit of opposition which always blinds the truth.

The topic under discussion this evening'" The Resurrection of the Dead and What It Implies"'is a very prominent one in the Scriptures and a very important one, without which it is impossible to understand the divine plan of salvation. But this subject of the resurrection has been little studied by Christian people in general, because their minds were diverted away from it by the erroneous supposition that the dead were not dead, but alive in heaven or purgatory or hell.

The doctrine of the resurrection, therefore, has been rather in the way of Christian people and theologians who, following the style of Brother White's comments of the other evening, have claimed that it is a resurrection of the body, whereas the Scriptures declare that it is a resurrection of the soul, and never once referred to a resurrection of the body. Elder White, the other evening, endeavored to read in the word "body," claiming that when the apostle says, "It is sown," and "it is raised," the body is meant. But if the "it" means the body, how does it apply when the apostle says, "God giveth it a body as it has pleased him"? Does it mean that God giveth the body a body? [HG228] Surely not. The "it" is the being, the soul. The matter is clearly stated in respect to our Lord; his soul was not left in Sheol, was not left in Hades, was not left in the grave. "Thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades" (Acts 2:27-31).

Theologians, in wrestling with this subject of the resurrection, are so confused by the error of thinking that the man is alive in the interim between death and the resurrection, that they formulate some peculiar absurdities in trying to explain the matter. They would tell us, for instance, that Adam has been over five thousand years living without a body either in heaven or hell, but if he is in heaven his happiness is not quite complete, because he needs that flesh; and if in hell he is not suffering as much as he would do and ought to do, and, therefore, needs the resurrection to complete either his joy or his pain, and similarly with all the other thousands of millions. The mere statement of the matter should show the absurdity of it. According to science, our bodies experience a change, throwing off all effete matter, and taking on new, so that our organisms, our bodies, are completely changed every seven years. Evidently, therefore, these changing particles of matter are not important; it is not particular atoms of matter that the dead will desire in the resurrection, but a return to being, a return of soul, a return to conscious personality. I have not the time on this occasion to discuss the meaning of the word "soul," but have a free tract on this subject which I will be pleased to send to any who will write a postal-card request to me at Allegheny.

The resurrection is what the apostle terms the salvation that will be brought unto us at the revelation of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. (1 Pet. 1:13.) Any salvation which we enjoy in the present time, the apostle explains, is salvation by hope, by faith, and is not an actual salvation. Rom. 8:24, "We are saved by hope." If our hope continues, and if we are energized by it to obedience to the divine Word, the result will be our actual salvation, or resurrection, full and complete'a salvation from sin and its death penalty. But notice that as the Scriptures clearly distinguish between the trial of the church during this gospel day and the trial of the world during the millennial day, so it distinguished between our special salvation and the world's common or general salvation, and similarly it distinguishes between the first resurrection, which the saints will enjoy, and the general resurrection, which will be for the world.

In other words, the great general penalty that came upon Adam and all his posterity that was sentenced to death was, "Thou turnest man to destruction" (Psa. 90:3)'to "sheol," to "hades," and to the grave. The second step in the divine plan was the redemption of Adam and all his race by the great Redeemer Jesus.

The third step will be the deliverance of the world from the sentence of death'otherwise called the "curse," the "wrath of God," etc., that is resting upon our race because all are sinners. (Rom. 5:12.) Have in mind, then, these three parts: 1. Adam's sin and its death penalty. 2. Our Lord's righteousness and the giving of his life as the redemption price for Father Adam, and, incidentally, for all his children. 3. The resurrection of the dead. The race was treated as a whole in the original sentence which passed upon all men, and in offset of that "Jesus Christ, by the grace of God, tasted death for every man." And in response to this, "There shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and of the unjust" (Acts 24:15).

It will be noticed that the resurrection is in this text divided into two parts, the just and the unjust Similarly the prophet Daniel, speaking of the matter, divides it into two parts, saying: Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,

(1) some to everlasting life and

(2) some to shame and age-lasting contempt. (Dan. 12:2.) Notice that they were not enjoying everlasting life, but were asleep in death, and the others were not suffering shame and lasting contempt, but were also asleep until awakened. But particularly notice the two classes, both participating in the resurrection.

Come now to our Lord's statement on the subject, "Marvel not at this, for the hour is coming in which all that are in their graves shall hear the voice of the Son of man and shall come forth; they that have done good to the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29). Note here, again, that all are in their graves, and not alive; and that all must come forth from their graves, not from heaven, or purgatory, or hell. Note that the coming forth is not the resurrection, either, but that they come forth that they may have a resurrection'they come forth "unto resurrection."

The Greek word signifying resurrection is anastasis, and does not mean merely an awakening from the dead, as in the case of Lazarus. The meaning of the word is "standing up again." The thought is that a fall took place. Adam was created perfect and upright, in the image of his Maker, but through sin and disobedience he experienced a fall, which affected him mentally, morally and physically.

Christ's redemption of Adam, his payment of Adam's ransom price by His own death at Calvary, secures much more for Adam than merely the coming out of a state of unconsciousness. Imagine Adam in his dying moments, 930 years old, weak, emaciated, all run down every way. Let us not get the thought that our Redeemer's death was intended merely to justify Adam to return to [HG229] that enfeebled condition. Oh, no; the payment of his sin penalty justified his return to the condition in which he was when he transgressed. Or, as Jesus expressed it, he carne "to seek and to save that which was lost" (Luke 19:10).

Human perfection was lost; the right to a return to human perfection was bought by the precious blood of Jesus, and the time for the return will be at our Lord's second coming, when all shall hear the voice of the Son of man and come forth from the tomb in practically the same condition in which they entered it; but unto, or with a view to, their resurrection or raising up again out of the sin and death condition into perfection, etc., from which they had degraded. So, then, in Adam's case it may be plainly seen that he not only will be awakened in the condition in which he died, but he will be granted the opportunity of standing up again, of resurrection, of full recovery from his fall into sin and imperfection. This is the glorious meaning of the word "resurrection"'standing up again.

True, only Adam and Eve ever fell from perfection; but all their race were reckoned as sharing in their fall, because if they had not fallen their children would have been born on the same plane of perfection and to divine likeness; hence in the divine arrangement the redemption of Adam to all that he lost includes also all of his children, all of whom, under the Lords gracious arrangement, will have a full opportunity of coming back to the perfection of life, to the image of God.

Now let us note the processes of the divine arrangement.

Adam and his race did not lose their perfection in the divine image suddenly, but gradually during the six thousand years the race as a whole has been going downward, so that while Adam, even under adverse conditions, was 930 years in dying, the average length of life today is thirty-five years. And so we find that the Lord has arranged that the resurrection'anastasis, raising up again'shall be a gradual one.

All of God's blessings began with the church, which the apostle tells us is to be "a kind of firstfruits unto God of his creatures" (Jas. 1:18). If this were the only Scripture on the subject, we should be able to gather from its statements that God intended the salvation of an after-fruits, else what is the signification of the church being a kind of firstfruits? Again, the church is called "the church of the first-born," or. more literally, the "first-borns" (plural); others of the human family to be saved later will come in as the after-borns. (Heb. 12:23.) It should be noticed that the Scriptures use this word "born" in respect to the perfecting accomplished in the resurrection. Hence the church is spoken of as being begotten of the Holy Spirit, and a later experience, which we enjoy, is called the quickening of the Spirit. When we begin to be active in the service of Him who hath called us from darkness into his marvelous light, then the embryotic condition is represented as progressing and preparing us for birth in the resurrection. Thus our Lord, begotten of the Holy Spirit at the time of his baptism, quickened by that Spirit to energy in doing the will of him that sent him, and finishing his work, was developed and made ready for his birth of the Spirit in his resurrection. We read, "He was the first-born from the dead," a death in the flesh and quickening in the Spirit. And again, "the first-born among many brethren"'we his brethren are to be similarly born in the first resurrection, as we shall see later. (Col 1:18; 1 Cor. 15:20.) Only this first-born class is being dealt with at the present time. God's time for begetting the world with the Spirit of the truth, and for the world to be developed, and for the world to be born, in the sense of reaching perfection of life, will be in the next age during the millennium. No one will question that the heathen are not begotten of the word of truth at the present time, when we know that more than 1,200,000,000 of them have never heard of the only name whereby we must be saved.

Pardon me if I emphasize this thought, for I realize how important it is to your clear comprehension of the divine plan as revealed in the Scriptures – that the church, the elect, the saints, will alone constitute the resurrection of the tested holy who shall be associated with Christ to share with him in his throne of glory and in his work of blessing all the families of the earth as members of the spiritual seed of Abraham. Let me quote again: "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection; on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests unto God and of Christ and shall reign with. him a thousand years" (Rev. 20:6).

The resurrection process for the church, the "little flock" class, begins with their consecration, when they are reckoned as dead with Christ, yea, also, as risen with him, dead to sin and alive toward God through Jesus Christ, their Lord. Their changed or resurrection life has its beginning now, and, as the apostle says, they are being transformed by the renewing of their minds, that they may prove (know, experience) the good, acceptable and perfect will of God, and this we will attain in our actual resurrection, when all the members of the church, which is the body of Christ, shall have been "begotten" and "quickened" and developed and be ready to be "born from the dead" in the first resurrection.

This first resurrection class, the church, is said to share in Christ's resurrection, his resurrection, which is not to human perfection, but to glory, honor and [HG230] immortality'" far above angels, principalities and powers, and every name that is named."

Those who are called of the Lord here in this gospel age are invited to share in his ignominy, to suffer with him, to suffer for the truth, to suffer for one another, to "lay down our lives for the brethren," "for if we suffer"'with him'" we shall also reign with him" (2 Tim. 2:12). "If we be dead with him, we shall also live with him"'" heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ, if so be we suffer with him that we may also be glorified together" (Rom. 8:17). These, and these alone, are to share in the first resurrection, "his resurrection."

Note this expression of the apostle in his letter to the Philip. 3:8, 9). He says, "I do count all things but loss and dross that I may win Christ and be found in him," a member of the glorious body of the anointed one beyond the veil'a member of the bride'the Lamb's wife, who shall sit with him in his throne. (Rev. 3:21.) The apostle continues the same argument, saying "that I may know him"'might be identified with him and experience the'" power of his resurrection" (Philip. 3:10).

"His resurrection" is the first resurrection, or chief resurrection of spirit nature, of the divine nature, but as for the world's resurrection it will be entirely different; it will be a resurrection, a raising up again to the glory, to the dignity, the grandeur of the perfect man Adam, as he came from the hand of God very good, in the image and likeness of him who created him, plus the valuable experiences gained through the fall and the raising up again'resurrection.

The apostle, continuing his argument, declares that the conditions upon which he may hope to share in Christ's resurrection, the first resurrection, or, according to the Greek, the "out resurrection," exanastasis, is that he shall be made conformable to Christ's death'that he should die as Christ died. (Philip. 3:10.) He does not by this mean that he must die on the cross, but that he must die a sacrificial death; he must lay down his life in the service of God, in the service of righteousness, in the service of the brethren, the body of Christ. And this rule applies to all who will be members of the body of Christ, the royal priesthood, the peculiar people. As our Master said, each of these must take up his cross and follow him, or they can not be his disciples.

Who are the good and the just meant by the apostle and our Lord, as those who will share in the first resurrection?

We have now clearly in mind the two classes, and that the resurrection has been provided for both in the divine plan'that the sacrifice for sin was a ransom for all to be testified in due time. (1 Tim. 2:4-6.) Let us examine particularly St.

Paul's expression, "the resurrection of the just," which corresponds with our Lord's expression "that they have done good." But who are these? We reply, that in the absolute sense "there is none righteous, no, not one" (Rom. 3:10). There is none just.

We must therefore understand these expressions "done good" and "just" in the relative sense in which they are uniformly used in the Bible. As the apostle says, "The righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Rom. 8:4). Fortunately for us, it does not say walking up to the spirit of the divine law, for then none of us would be acceptable, but it does say walking after the spirit of the divine law, and this may include all who have been begotten of the Holy Spirit, but it could not include any one else.

Hence, all of our neighbors and relatives and members of our families who have not been begotten of the Holy Spirit can not be of these who are walking after the Spirit, can not be of these who are approved of God, and described by the apostle as "the just," the justified, the acceptable; can not be of those described by our Lord as having done good in God's sight; can not, therefore, be of those who have part in this first resurrection of life, the first resurrection of the blessed and holy, this chief resurrection to joint-heirship with Christ in glory, honor, immortality, and to reign with him a thousand years. I might press the matter a little closer and say that not all those who are begotten of the Holy Spirit shall come off more than conquerors and share in the first resurrection, but my point is sufficiently well established without pressing it to this extreme, and I ask you then to consider carefully in your minds how many, how few, of your neighbors, friends and relatives you may, according to the apostle's phraseology, expect will be in the first or blessed resurrection to everlasting life, and then you will conclude, dear friends, that all others will be in the other resurrection, the resurrection of damnation, or the resurrection of the unjust which we shall consider presently. If you have followed me carefully, if you get the force of the apostle's words respecting walking not after the flesh, but after the Spirit, the Spirit begotten, and then continuing in that good way, you should be ready to admit that the number in this resurrection is extremely limited, as our Master expressed it, "Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom" (Luke 12:32).

And again. "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne" (Rev. 3:21). Let us now apply the words of Daniel, indicating that the holy awake to everlasting life, and the words of St. Paul, that the just will be [HG231] resurrected first, and the words of Jesus, that this class, having done well, been approved of God, conquerors and more than conquerors through him who loved us and bought us'these shall have as their reward that they will come forth unto the resurrection of life. What does that signify'the life resurrection? It means this, that there will not be a gradual raising up, but that the power of resurrection will come upon them suddenly; that they, as the apostle explains, will be "changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye," and not by a gradual process of mental, moral and physical development. Their gradual change takes place in this present life, changing them from glory to glory into the likeness of God's dear Son (2 Cor. 3:18), and through experiences and trials, sufferings and self-sacrifices, that they may thus, as the jewels of the Lord, be polished and made ready for the kingdom. These, then, one by one, as they were polished, the apostles first, and all the faithful little flock in Christ since, have been allowed to wait for their glorification and their resurrection change, until the second coming of Christ, that the whole body of Christ may be glorified together. "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:2).

Thus St. Paul said: "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, 1 have kept the faith; henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that day, and not to me only, but unto all them that love his appearing" (2 Tim. 4:7-8). As St. Peter also said: "And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away" (1 Pet. 5:4-5).

Respecting this resurrection of the church, St. Paul wrote: "It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown an animal body, it is raised a spiritual body" (1 Cor. 15:42-43). Then adds: "Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" (1 Cor. 15:51). The majority of the church, including the apostles, having been polished and prepared for the kingdom, "fell asleep" (1 Cor. 15:6), and have since waited for the full gathering of the full body of Christ at his second coming, and the apostle is here pointing out that those who will be living at the time of the second advent will not go before the ones who are asleep, but, on the contrary, the "dead in Christ" (the sleeping ones) will rise first. Or, as Daniel says, awake first, and then the living ones of that time will experience a similar change, so that all will be glorified with the Lord beyond the yell as spirit beings, for, as the apostle says, "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." Therefore, not only those who have slept for centuries must be changed to spirit beings, but the living ones also must be changed from flesh and blood to spirit.

When thus changed we "shall be like him" and "see him as he is"'not as he was. (1 John 3:2.) We have already quoted the Scriptures which tell us the reward of this little flock, the bride of Christ, who will participate in this resurrection of the blessed and holy, and we remark that the title "first resurrection" in the Greek signifies not merely first as in order of time, but especial first in the sense of paramount, chief, highest resurrection. They will receive perfection of life instantly, because their trials for this glorious condition in the present life will have passed successfully'they will have had the approval of God as copies of his dear Son, and be accounted worthy to obtain that resurrection.

We come now to the other, or general resurrection, styled by the apostle the resurrection. of the unjust, and styled by Daniel the resurrection of those who shall be awakened from the sleep of death to shame and age-lasting contempt.

This resurrection, in John 5:29, is called by our Lord "the resurrection of damnation," but the translation is seriously faulty. The Greek word rendered damnation is krisis, and is more properly rendered in the Revised Version, "judgment," as in the twenty-second verse of the same chapter, where we read, "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son" (John 5:22). It was the same word used by St. Peter also when he said God knoweth how "to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished" (2 Pet. 2:9). He is not punishing them now. They are to get their punishment when the day of judgment comes. Our translators could scarcely have made a poorer translation than they have given us when they improperly rendered this word "damnation" contrary to its use elsewhere and contrary to its meaning. Surely the poor world has had enough of damnation or condemnation already; as the apostle says, condemnation passed upon all men because of Adam's transgression. (Rom. 5:12-18.) The world has been under this condemnation for six thousand years, and, although Christ has redeemed them from that condemnation, their release from it has not yet been accomplished, because the world must wait until the "calling," the "sealing" and the "glorifying" of the "elect" shall first be accomplished. This condemnation that is still upon the world will at the second coming of our Lord be canceled, and then, under the new covenant, the Lord will be merciful to their transgressions and their sins, and their iniquities he will remember no more. (Jer. 31:31-34.) The apostle [HG232] tells us that God has appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the glorified Christ. This is a promise of a future judgment or a future trial of the world, and the millennial day or epoch is set apart for that particular work. God hath appointed a day in which he will judge the world. That is not judging the world now. With the forgiving of the Adamic condemnation, mankind will be brought to a new trial. or judgment, or test, even as we who believe during this gospel age on account of our faith are counted as released from Adamic condemnation and started on a new trial for life eternal or death eternal; so the world, when its judgment day shall begin, will not only be released from the Adamic condemnation, but immediately begin to be on trial individually for life or death eternal. Our Lord, in this same chapter, declares that the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment to the Son, and the apostle corroborates this, saying that God "will judge the world"'in that day (not in this age)'" by that man whom he hath ordained"'Christ Jesus (Acts 17:31), the head to the Lord, the bridegroom, the church, the body of Christ being associated with him in his judgment throne, from which the blessings of the Lord will go forth, and also his testings and discipline to every creature. That the glorified church, after sharing in the first resurrection, will be associated with the Lord in the judgment of the world during the world's great judgment day, the millennial age, is the distinct statement of the apostle. I quote his words: Know ye not "that the saints shall judge the world?" (1 Cor. 6:2). Now, then, connect with this thought of the world's coming judgment by the Lord and his associates, the church, the language of Jesus: They that have done good "shall come forth unto the resurrection of life"'the first resurrection'" and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of" judgment. (John 5:29.) We have already shown that the mere awakening of the sleeping dead is not a resurrection, and the Lord's word declares that the unjustified, the disapproved of God, will all come forth from their tomb, from the sleep of death, "unto," or that they may have a resurrection, by judgment; that they may be raised up out of their present fallen, blemished, sinful, imperfect conditions, mental, moral and physical, up, up, up, to that which is perfect, to that which was lost, that they may rise up again to the glorious heights of the likeness and image of God as he originally created them, from which perfection they fell through sin, but to the privilege of returning to it again, they were redeemed by the precious blood of Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Now, let us look at the statement of Dan. 12:2 that some will come forth "to shame and age-lasting contempt." Imagine the world coming forth during the millennial age from the tomb; imagine the blessed conditions which we are promised shall then prevail when Immanuel shall be King over all the earth, when Satan shall be bound during that thousand-year judgment day of the world, when the knowledge of the Lord shall shine forth as the great sun of righteousness to scatter all the clouds of ignorance and superstition that are now binding the heart of man. Imagine the knowledge of the glory of the Lord filling the whole earth, not merely as a gentle shower, but symbolically ocean deep, as we read. The knowledge of the Lord shall fill the whole earth "as the waters cover the deep" (Isa. 11:9). Consider the description of that glorious epoch given us through the prophets and apostles. The apostle Peter says of it: "Times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord, and he shall send Jesus Christ"'the second advent'" whom the heavens must receive [retain] until the time of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began" (Acts 3:19-21). We have just been considering some of the promises made by the holy prophets. Hark further to the Lord's 'declaration that the people of that time shall no longer say, "I am sick," and that there shall no longer be an infant of days, children in infancy, neither an old man that hath not filled his days; none shall die of old age, but sinners shall be cut off in the second death; for the prophet goes on to declare that a sinner dying then at a hundred years would be but a child; he might at very least, by obedience to the laws of Messiah's kingdom, live to the conclusion of the millennium. (Isa. 65:20.) The apostle Peter, speaking of that reign of Christ, head and body, the antitypical Moses, said: "And it shall come to pass that every soul which will not hear that prophet"'that great teacher of the millennial age'" shall be" utterly "destroyed from among the people." Thus there will be a weeding out during the millennial age, they who persist in the love of sin, and choose to disobey the divine law and respond to Messiah's judgments, disciplines, etc., until at the close of the millennium the whole world will consist of human beings in the image of God as was Adam. As the divine plan tested Adam when he was perfect, so his divine arrangement that the world of mankind shall be subject to a severe crucial test at the close of the millennial age, after they shall have passed through the experiences of the fall and of the raising again to all that was lost. If by that experience they have learned to fully submit their thought to the will of God, if they have learned to love righteousness and to hate as iniquity everything contrary to the divine will, it is God's pleasure that they shall have eternal life. And any who will not after these experiences be in full accord with him, and who would have any love or sympathy for sin, will be blotted out of existence; for "the soul that sinneth it shall die" (Eze. 18:20), shall always be the divine standard.

This trial at the end of the millennial age is clearly pictured to us in Rev. 20:2, where we are told that after Satan, having been bound for a thousand years to deceive the nations no more, that at that time he may be loosed and test or try all who dwell on the face of the earth, whose number is as the sand of the seashore.

What proportion of these will yield to the temptations of the hour we are not informed, but those who do yield will be counted in as enemies of God, and their destruction, in harmony with the divine judgment, is symbolically pictured in the words, "Fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them."

Another picture of this millennial age, the time of judgment of the world, is given us in Rev. 20:12, where we read that the "dead, small and great," will "stand before . . . the great white throne." The whiteness of the throne represents its purity; the righteousness of the judgment reign of Christ. (Rev. 20:11-12.) As it is written again, he shall judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained'Christ and the saints, for we are members in particular of the body of Christ. The books will be opened, the books of the Bible which now are to so many closed and misunderstood, and the dead will be judged according to the things written in the books. The same law and the same understanding of the divine character that is now to be presented to you and to me will then be presented to them. God changes not, his plain law changes not. As our Lord declared, "My word shall judge you in the last day"'the millennial day, the last of the 7,000-year days. Six of these days have already passed under the reign of sin and death; the seventh is just before us, and is called the day of the Lord, the day of Christ, the great Sabbath for the world, in which, through Christ, they shall rest through Christ from the Adamic condemnation, be released from it, and be brought back, if they will, into harmony with God.

We read also that they will be judged according to their works, and this, we notice, is quite contrary to the judgment that is now upon the church, for, as the apostle informs us, we are judged according to our faith, according to our endeavors, and not according to the actual results. But the world during the millennium, during its judgment day, will be judged according to its works, and works will be possible under the assistance of the kingdom. There will be nothing to pull down, nothing to tempt, nothing to destroy, in all the Lord's holy kingdom.

Everything to upbuild and to strengthen and assist; not merely to have good endeavors, but their endeavors will meet with more and more success as they shall rise up more and more out of sin and death conditions unto full perfection of all that was lost.

By the end of the millennial age perfect works will be possible to all who remain and perfect works will be required of them; they shall be judged according to their works. This does not mean that faith will not have its part, but they will no longer walk by faith, as we now do, but by sight, by the various assistances of that glorious day when the darkness and shadows of the present time shall all have flown. Note that the apostle tells us of that blessed day further, saying, "The ransomed of the Lord shall return and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads. They shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away" (Isa. 35:10). Let us not think of this as referring to the saints at the present time, but rather of the returning or restitution class who will then be privileged, as the same prophet declares, to go on the highway of holiness, which is a very different way from the "narrow way" of holiness which is the only way open during this gospel age for those who will be joint-heirs with Christ.

Let us remember the words of the same prophet concerning the same restitution class, during its day of judgment hour, on trial for life or death eternal. Let us remember that the redeemed of the Lord are not merely the elect who enjoy his favor during this gospel age, but that the whole world was redeemed, and God has promised a blessing to every member of the race through the precious blood; describing the blessings of the millennial age and the resurrection in beautiful poetic language. He says:

"And in this mountain"'kingdom of God'" shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined, and he will destroy in this mountain"'kingdom'" the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations"'ignorance, superstition, death'" he will swallow up death in victory, and the Lord God will wipe away tears off all faces, and the rebuke of" being "his people shall he take away from all the earth" (Isa. 25:6-8).

The new order of things connected with Messiah's reign, and the world's judgment or trial epoch, is most gloriously pictured as a "new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness," as compared with the present order or condition of things over which Satan is the prince, or ruler, when sin and death abound. [HG234] (2 Pet. 3:13.) Not that there will be a literal burning of this earth, or its destruction in any sense of the word, but that the great transition epoch between the reign of sin and the reign of righteousness will be accompanied by a momentous epoch of trouble, including anarchy, which will overthrow all present institutions, and prepare the world for the reign of righteousness and love, as in contradistinction to the present reign of sin and selfishness and death.

The binding of Satan and the overthrow of the reign of sin is described as "a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation" (Dan. 12:1). And following it will come the new era of peace, in which God's blessings will be poured out on the world, while their judgment or trial for life or death eternal will be in progress.

Hearken to the description: "I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men"'the tabernacle of God is the church itself, the holy temple of God, the wonderful temple of the living God'" and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people; and God himself shall be with them and be their God; and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain; for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write, for these words are true and faithful" (Rev. 21:3-5).

Mark, dear friends, that this is not a picture of the reward of the church in heaven.

It is a picture given us respecting God's dealings with the children of men on earth, after the glorification of the church, the new Jerusalem, the bride, the Lamb's wife. It pictures the time when God's tabernacle shall be with men under the whole heaven. It tells us that the whole earth shall be filled with the glory of God. It tells of the time when "every knee shall bow" and every tongue confess; the time when all men shall have full knowledge of God and his righteousness, and a full opportunity of coming back into full harmony with him, and to full perfection, full raising up, full resurrection to all that was lost by Father Adam's disobedience.

Up to the present time God has not been judging the world; that is, rewarding and punishing each act of mankind. The whole world was under a death sentence anyway, and only those who came to the Lord and got free from the original sentence could with any propriety be said to be on trial again. Hence the trial was confined to justified believers, God's people; hence the Scriptural declaration, "The Lord will judge his people" (Psa. 135:14). But the judgment of the world, as we have already shown, is set aside for the future. God "hath appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness," the millennial day, which has not yet been fully inaugurated. (Acts 17:31.) When that glorious day shall be ushered in, the judgments of the Lord in the earth will all be committed to the Son, as the Scriptures declare, "The Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son" (John 5:22), and the judgment of the Son will take cognizance of every evil deed of every creature, as we read that he shall not judge by the hearing of the ear, neither by the sight of the eye; he shall judge righteous judgment. (Isa. 11:3-4.) Christ and the church will thus regulate the world's affairs, and see to it that every evil deed is punished, and every good endeavor is rewarded, and the result will be marvelous, as the prophet has declared: "When thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness" (Isa. 26:9). As soon as a man finds that the attempt to commit a robbery will bring upon him some physical punishment, he will desist. As soon as he finds that to slander his neighbor would bring upon him a temporary paralysis of the tongue, he will be careful respecting his words. And so with every act and every word, a just recompense of reward will be rendered for each; and forthwith there will be no further use for jails and penitentiaries, police or armies; and speedily the world will learn that honesty, righteousness and truth will be their best policy, and gradually they will learn to love righteousness when they see its beneficient operations in the uplifting of their own minds and bodies and hearts, from sin and degradation toward the likeness of God.

Oh, how these descriptions given in the word of God of the glorious times of restitution that are to come, give us a new view of his character for justice and for love, as well as for wisdom and for power. With what fervency we can now pray, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Now, as we read the apostle's words, "The whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together, . . . for the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God" (Rom. 8:22, 19), we see a meaning in his words that we never saw before. The manifestation of the sons of God will be their glorification in the kingdom church in glory. "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Matt. 13:43). And as the result of the shining forth, as the result of the kingdom then established, as the result of the overthrow of Satan, sin and death, will come the relief of the groaning creation from the bondage of corruption, the bondage to death. Some of them are bound by mental and physical and moral chains. Others have gone down into the tomb. But all shall be released; all [HG235] shall have an opportunity to return to the Father's house, for "in my Father's house are many mansions" (John 14:2). There is one for the angels, there is one for the glorified church and there is another not so high for the world of mankind.

Mark how the apostle points this out in the same connection, saying, "Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God" (Rom. 8:21). The liberty of the children of God, fully attained, means everlasting life, without the blemishes and imperfections with which we are now acquainted. The children of God, the saints, will get their release in the first resurrection. But the groaning creation, the world in general, as the context shows, are also to have their share, but not until the saints are glorified. Then, during the millennium, the world may be released from all the bondage, all the restraints, all the limitations of corruption and death, and come back to all that was lost in Adam, redeemed by the precious blood of Jesus.

But, says one, will their conduct in the present life not have something to do with the condition of mankind during the millennial age? Will they get scot-free? We answer, clear friends, that we may judge somewhat of the Lord's dealing then by his dealing with the church now. Those of you who now are saints of God, and who once were aliens and strangers and enemies of God, and who at that time sowed your "wild oats," sowed to the wind'how did God deal with you when you were received into his family? Consider the matter for a moment. Although he freely forgave you your trespasses for Christ's sake, and permitted you to enter into blessings and joys, and to an appreciation of his glorious Word, nevertheless he permitted that some of the sting and smart and poison of your course of sin should continue with you. Doubtless many of this audience have aches and pains at this moment, the result of their sins and indiscretions before they came into the Lord's family, before their sins were forgiven. We see a principle here, a reconciliation, and also a permission of stripes, or punishments. From God's standpoint our responsibility is in proportion to our knowledge. Since all, except idiots and infants, have some knowledge, all have some responsibility, and for that responsibility they must expect stripes or punishments, few or many. This is the principle which applies to the world in the future. They will not be lost to all eternity, which would neither be few stripes or many, but would constitute interminable, unceasing stripes.

The legal obligation of the world will be entirely canceled before the Lord with the opening of the millennial age, for God has promised that under the new covenant he will forgive the sins and iniquities of Israel, and the apostle shows that the same principle will apply to all the Gentiles. It will be a gradual work to take away the stony hearts out of the flesh and to give them a heart of flesh. It will require a large share of the millennial age to bring mankind into that gracious condition in which they will have the heart of flesh'hearts proper to perfect mankind'hearts of love. But remember, dear friends, that these hearts of flesh, promised to the world under the new covenant, which will be inaugurated at the second coming ofour Lord, are totally different from the blessing that is granted to the church now. To us the Lord does not give a heart of flesh, but makes us new creatures in Christ Jesus, a new creation of God, to whom all old things are passed away and all things have become new; for we are to be spirit beings like unto our Lord and not flesh beings like Adam. (2 Cor. 5:17; 1 John 3:2; 1 Cor. 15:45-49.) We see, then, that in proportion as any one at the present time is a transgressor against any measure of light, he is to that extent amenable to stripes or punishments. And we may say that each worldly person carries about in his own body the reward of his willful misdoings and an automatic measure of stripes, which he will receive during the world's judgment day.

If the world could have this, the Scriptural thought, it would have far more weight with it than all the not-believed theories about eternal torment. Because, like all the other features of the divine plan, this is reasonable, and it commends itself to all reasonable minds as at least probable.

Note how this harmonizes with the Scriptures. Daniel says (Dan. 12:2) that "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt." He is not referring to shame and contempt that they had when alive. He is not referring to shame and contempt which the world had for them while they were dead. He is referring to a shame and lasting contempt which they themselves will experience amongst mankind after they shall have been awakened from the sleep of death during the millennium. Some of them will have more shame and more contempt, others less.

Each man's shame and contempt will be measured by his moral obliquity. At that time, in some manner not explained in the Scriptures (possibly by some power closely resembling mind reading), the weakness and contemptibility of each member of the race will be manifested to each other one, and in marked contrast with the perfect standards of righteousness which will then be uplifted before the whole world of mankind. Some will be there who in the present time have succeeded remarkably well in covering their really [HG236] dark designs, selfishness and meanness. They will be opened as a book. Some whose dark deeds were all secreted will then be recognized, shunned and shamed.

If we would choose from amongst men an illustration of the basest of men, it would probably be the emperor Nero, the murderer of his own mother, the man whose perfidy triumphed in so many ways and who so cruelly burned many of the followers of Jesus, making torches of them by covering them with burning pitch.

Nero was redeemed; Nero will be one of those, therefore, who will come forth among the unjust, among those who have done evil, with whom God was not pleased. Nero will come forth to a resurrection by judgment. The judgment of the Lord, the stripes, the experiences of shame and contempt, may, if he wills, work out for him a blessing, leading to a complete reformation and transformation of his character, and, if so, in proportion as the change progresses, his shame and the contempt of his fellows will decrease, and finally, should he come fully into heart harmony with the Lord, the shame and contempt will all gradually fade out, and thereafter his fellows will all come to love him and appreciate him as an overcomer of sin, and as one to whom God will be pleased to grant eternal life because of such a change, . and because of his coming to be a lover of righteousness and a hater of iniquity.

We have chosen an extreme example, but remember that the Lord also shows an extreme example when he mentions the Sodomites and declares that in his sight they were less guilty, less responsible, less deserving of shame and contempt and stripes than some to whom he preached in his day, and who thought themselves quite respectable, church-going people. (Matt. 11:23-24.) Now, dear friends, we have before us the Scriptures on the subject of the resurrection of the just and of the unjust, of the good, approved of God, the saints, the little flock, those who at the conclusion of the present life are adjudged of God to be fit and prepared for eternal glory and joint-heirship with our Lord in his kingdom. We have shown you that these are few. The fact is indisputable. You know that many of your friends and neighbors are not walking after the spirit, but after the flesh, and that only these will be of the saints in the first resurrection.

Consequently you see that the great majority of those you know today will be in this secondary resurrection, the resurrection to judgment. And it should rejoice your heart as it does mine to know that they only do not go to eternal torture when they die; but that even after they awake from the sleep of death God's provision for them, when they shall hear the voice of the Son of man and come forth from the graves, is that they might have a resurrection by judgment, by testing, by discipline, by the rewards and punishments which will be meted out to them during the whole of the world's judgment day, the millennial age.

L. S. WHITE'S FIRST REPLY.

Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen: It is due the public, as well as the important questions now in debate, that I should now state the fact that Elder Russell not only refused to have moderators in this discussion, but he also positively refused to be governed by the rules in Hedge's Logic, which were written for the purpose of governing men in controversy, and which are almost always used in religious debates. I did my best to get him to be governed by these rules, but he refused. One of these rules says: "As truth and not victory is the professed object of controversy, whatever proof may be advanced on either side should be examined with fairness and candor, and any attempt to answer the adversary by the arts of sophistry or to lessen the force of his reasoning by wit, caviling or ridicule is in violation of the rules of honorable controversy."

Elder Russell's course last night may contain the reason why he would not agree to be governed by these rules. If you remember, he not only violated the rule which requires a man to examine with fairness and candor his opponent's arguments, but he reserved all of his own main points last night until his closing speech, when he knew that I could have nothing to say in reply.

You will also remember that he could have easily avoided this course, for he spent much of the time of his first speech, to which I did have a reply, in telling about some man with whom he had corresponded, and then in his last speech, to which he knew I would not have a reply, he presented his main points.

Now we come to the word krisis, that was briefly considered last night. On the Greek word krisis I may not have expressed myself as fully and as clearly last night as the case demands. At any rate, the Greek word krisis and the English word "crisis" are originally the same word, but the application of the word as used in the English language today is not always the same that we find in the New Testament, and yet the two usages have a point in common. And so it is that when a physician says the course of a disease has reached the crisis he means that it has reached the decisive point. And when men continue to do evil to the end of this life it is said of them that they will be raised to crisis'judgment. That is, they will come to the decisive [HG237] moment. Elder Russell attempted last night to make capital of my statement that "sheol" and "hades" do not in themselves teach anything about future punishment.

But I do not say, nor did my words either directly or remotely imply, that the place of punishment is not in Hades. On the contrary, it is in Hades. A man may be in Hades and not be in the place of punishment, but he can not be in the place of punishment without being in Hades. Just as a man might be in Columbus, Ohio, and not be in the penitentiary, but he could not be in the penitentiary there without being in Columbus.

He also made some capital out of the case of the rich man and Lazarus, and his brethren in the audience applauded him lustily. You will remember, among other things, that he declared that it was a parable, and not an actual occurrence, and said positively that the rich man was the Jewish nation, and that Lazarus represented the Gentile nation. That being true, I am going to read it, substituting "Jewish nation" for the rich man and "Gentile nation" for the poor man; that is what he said about it. Luke 16:19-31: "There was a certain Jewish nation which was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day, and there was a certain Gentile nation which was laid at the Jewish nation's gate, full of sores, and the Gentile nation desired to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the Jewish nation's table. Moreover, the dogs came and licked the Gentile nation's sores, and it came to pass that the Gentile nation died and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. The Jewish nation also died and was buried, and in Hades he [the Jewish nation] lifted up his eyes, bringing torments, and seeth Abraham afar off and the Gentile nation in his bosom."

Now, then, as his brethren last night seemed to enjoy what he said about this so much, and applauded him so much, I want to say that in three minutes from now Elder Russell will be the laughing-stock of this audience; to-morrow morning, when this is read in the Cincinnati Enquirer, he will be the laughing-stock of the people of Cincinnati, and in a month from now, when this debate goes out in a book, he will then be the laughing-stock in religious circles throughout America.

You remember how he reached out and said that Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom, and Abraham gathered him in his arms; Lazarus filled Abraham's arms full, and there would not be any room for you and me, and how his folks laughed about it. And here he declared that the beggar represented the entire Gentile nation, and then when the Gentile nation died the Gentile nation was carried into Abraham's bosom. Thus we have Abraham extending his arms out and taking in the whole Gentile nation. Abraham was a bigger man, perhaps, than Elder Russell had any idea that he was, and, more than that, Abraham said unto the Jewish nation: "Remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things and likewise the Gentile nation evil things, but now the Gentile nation is comforted and thou art tormented."

Then Abraham says that there is an impassable gulf between the two places, no passing over from one place to another. I want to ask the gentleman to tell us what the gulf represented. I want him to tell us whom Abraham represented, and why the rich man wanted Abraham to send Lazarus back to this earth to preach the word of the Lord unto his five brothers, that they might repent and escape that place of torment? He knew that there was no chance to prevent them from going into Hades. They all had to die, the good and the bad die alike, and go into Hades, the unseen world, but he recognized that they had to hear the word of God and repent in this life or they would go into the place of torment. So he wanted them to escape that awful place of torment. I want the gentleman to tell us who the five brethren of the rich man represent. I do not believe one word of this being a parable, but if it is a parable the lesson is identically the same. Jesus positively declares there was a certain rich man and certain things occurred in reference to him; he says there was a certain beggar, he gives us his name; his name was Lazarus, and then these two men were associated with Abraham. Abraham was a real character. No, sir, he can not get out of it in any such way as that.

But I propose to be both a Christian and a gentleman. I have a number of strong counter arguments that I am going to introduce on the negative side of the proposition he is affirming, and I am going to do this now that he may have the full benefit of them and study on them until he comes to his reply, and that he may have an opportunity of replying unto them this evening. I am not going to do with him as he did with me yesterday evening, wait until he has no reply, then bring in the strong negative argument.

In "Millennial Dawn," Volume 3, page 305, Elder Russell says in part: "They (all the prophetic landmarks) have shown us since 1873 we have been living in the seventh millennium; _ that the setting up of that kingdom has actually been in progress since the year 1878; that there the resurrection of all the dead in Christ was due; and that therefore, since that date, not only is our Lord and Head invisibly present in the world, but all these holy messengers are with him; and that the resurrection of his body, the church, we have seen, was in the year 1878, three and [HG238] a half years after his second advent in October, 1874."

Why all this change? When his third volume was published in 1891 he boldly declared that the resurrection of the saints, dead in Christ, was due in 1878, and since that date they have been invisibly present in the world. But now, seventeen years later, he is here affirming that the resurrection of both Christ and the saints is in the future, when seventeen years ago he boldly declared that both Jesus Christ and the saints were resurrected in 1878. He was either mistaken when he wrote the book, or he is mistaken in his present contention. Why the difference?

In 1891 Elder Russell was writing the book; in 1908 he is in Cincinnati with a Texas minister of the gospel after him, and he dare not take that position.

In "Millennial Dawn," Volume 3, page 305, my opponent tells us that though Christ has returned and is present with us, "we should not expect to see him or the risen saints ;" but the Bible teaches very differently indeed. Rev. 1:7: "Behold, he"'that is, Christ'" cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him; and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.

Even so, amen."

Elder Russell said we need not expect to see him; the Bible says when he comes every eye shall see him. Which are you going to take, the word of God or the word of Elder Charles T. Russell, of Allegheny, Pa.? You will have to decide between the two.

1 John 3:2: "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is."

The apostle John or Elder Russell, one or the other, is mistaken. John was guided by the Spirit, and Elder Russell is guided by this fake "Millennial Dawn" theory, hatched up by himself.

Acts 1:9-11: "And when he had spoken these words, while they beheld he was taken up." That is, Jesus Christ was taken up; "and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven." And "as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand you gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." That is, you have seen him go into heaven, and ye shall see him come back from heaven, and he will come back like he has gone into heaven. I tell you, either Elder Russell or the word of God is mistaken; and, for my part, I propose to follow the word of God.

I will introduce a number of texts on the second coming of Christ. Elder Russell utterly failed to define one solitary term of his proposition. The difference between the gentleman and myself is not over the fact that Christ will come the second time, but the contention is over the object of his coming, and the manner in which he shall come, on both of which I will sum up the Scriptural teaching as follows: 1. He shall come literally as he went away. (Acts 1:11.) 2. Every one shall see him. (Rev. 1:7.) 3. He will come at a time when we are not looking for him. (Matt. 24:44.) 4. He will come suddenly, as a thief in the night. (1 Thess. 5:2.) 5. When he comes the elements shall melt with fervent heat, and the earth shall be burned up. (2 Pet. 3:10.) 6. He shall come in flaming fire, taking vengeance on the wicked, (2 Thess. 1:7-10.) 8. The living saints shall be changed and meet him. (1 Thess. 4:16.) 9. His second coming will be heralded by the trump of God, the shout of Christ and the voice of the archangel. (1 Thess. 4:16.) 10. He shall come with ten thousand saints. (Jude 14.) 11. He shall then execute judgment upon all. (Jude 15.) 12. The general resurrection will then occur. (1 Cor. 15:23-52.) 13. Death shall then be destroyed. (1 Cor. 15:26.) 14. The saints will then be like him, and see him as he is. (1 John 3:2.) 15. The saints shall then be with him. (1 Thess. 4:17.) 16. He shall then judge the quick and the dead. (2 Tim. 4:1.) 17. Paul and all other saints will then get their reward. (2 Tim. 4:6-8.) 18. Then Christ shall deliver up the kingdom, the mediatorial throne. (Zech. 6:34; 1 Cor. 15:24.) 19. When all these things occur, and they will at the second coming of Christ, the unjust, unsaved; will necessarily be left out of gospel favor. So all this talk about people being given another opportunity of salvation, as Elder Russell teaches, after the second coming of Christ, is a travesty on the word of God. [Applause.]

[Moderator Bonham: Elder White, may I steal one minute of your time to request the audience, at the request of one of your friends, not to indulge in applause, as it was the agreement between Elder Russell and Elder White at the beginning of these debates that the audience were to be requested not to show their appreciation by applause?

Elder White: Before resuming the speech, I am glad to say that I am the man that first made that request. [HG239] Now I ask your attention.]

That there are to be two resurrections of bodies, one of the righteous and another of the unrighteous, with a thousand years, or a long period of time, intervening, is not true, for the following reasons; namely:

1. The righteous are to be rewarded when Christ comes, Rev. 22:12: "And behold, I come quickly, and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be." But the righteous are to be rewarded at the general resurrection.

John 5:28-29: "Marvel not at this; for the hour is coming in which all that are in the grave shall hear his voice and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." Therefore Christ will come at the general resurrection.

2. The wicked will be punished when Christ comes. 2 Thess. 1:7-10: "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day." But the wicked will be punished at the general resurrection. (John 5:28-29.) Therefore the second coming of Christ, the reward of the righteous and the punishment of the wicked, and the general resurrection, will all be at the same time.

3. But the reward of the righteous and the punishment of the wicked will be at the general judgment. Rev. 20:12-15: "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God, and the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the book o' life; and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, and whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

But we have seen that all of this is to be at the second coming of Christ, and after the thousand years are finished. (Rev. 22:12; 2 Thess. 1:7-10.)

Therefore it is certain that Christ will not come until the thousand years are over, neither can the bodies of any be resurrected until after the thousand years are finished. (John 5:29; Rev. 20:12-15.)

4. The Scriptures only recognize one return of Christ, but the second coming of Christ is always associated with the last judgment. Matt. 25:31-33: "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory, and before him shall be gathered all nations; and he shall separate them one from another as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left." 1 Cor. 15:23: "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." (2 Thess. 1:8.) But the last judgment is after the thousand years are finished. Therefore, the second coming of Christ will not take place until the last judgment.

5. But at the second coming of Christ, the last judgment and the general resurrection which we have already shown will occur at the same time, Christ will reward people for what they have done in this life, not according to what they may do in the next life. Rev. 22:12: "And behold, I come quickly, and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

Therefore it is certain that no one will be given an opportunity of salvation after the second advent of Christ. For he will come quickly and have his reward with him. And when he comes, then it will be that he will give every man his reward according as his works shall be.

6. In "Millennial Dawn," Volume V., page 365, Elder Russell denies the resurrection of the body. But at the second coming of Christ there will be the general resurrection, general judgment, the thousand years will be finished. (John 5:29; Rev. 20:12-15.) He not only denied it then, but denied it in his speech this evening by saying that when we are resurrected we will be spirit beings, not in our bodies. But Paul teaches that we must all appear before the judgment for what we do in our bodies, not for what we will do as spirit beings, but for what we will do while we are in our bodies. 2 Cor. 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgment-seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." Therefore, the only chance of salvation we will have will be while we are in the body'here in this present life.

7. Elder Russell denies the resurrection of our bodies. (" Millennial Dawn," Volume V., page 365.) But Paul teaches that we will be rewarded according to what we do while in the body. (2 Cor. 5:10.) And that rewarding will not he done until Christ comes again. But Christ will not come again until the final resurrection and judgment. (Matt. 25:31-46; Rev. 22:12; 2 Thess. 1:7-10.) Therefore, there can be no possible chance of salvation after the resurrection. But [HG240] I am asked, "What of the first resurrection spoken of in Rev. 20:7" Answer: "It is the resurrection, standing up again, of soul, not body." The prophet Ezekiel advances the same idea (Eze. 37:12) when speaking of the return of the captive Jews to their own land, says: "I will open your graves, O my people, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you again into the land of Israel." The prophets predicted that Elias should come before the Christ. He did come, not in person, but in spirit and in power, in the person of John the Baptist.

When the great reformer, Martin Luther, was waging war against Catholicism, the pope Adrian, say the historians, said: "The heretics Huss and Jerome are now alive again in the person of Martin Luther."

The second coming of Christ is placed by all the inspired writers at the great judgment day and after the period of the one thousand years. But John did not see a resurrection of bodies, but the souls or spirits of martyrs reigning with Christ.

This is not a resurrection from the grave at all. They had been put to the death in the body, but their spirits had never died, but were with Christ. What, then, is the lesson? That as Christ will reign upon the earth by his truth during this period, so will the spirit of the martyrs be revived and live in the church of the living God.

The souls of the martyrs lived in that period, because the church is composed of those who love Christ better than all things else. The souls of the martyrs live in this glorious reign of Christ, because of the general resurrection of the spirit of New Testament Christianity, not of bodies from the grave'and Christians are filled with the spirit of the martyrs or of the apostolic age. Then shall the knowledge of the Lord cover the earth as the waters cover the sea. This is the first resurrection; may God speed the day l But who are the rest of the dead who live not again until the thousand years are finished? Answer, those who are to have the souls, spirits of Nero, Herod, and other wicked characters, who put to death and otherwise persecuted the saints. I am glad my opponent brought up that contemptible character, Nero, who was so wicked that he even had his own mother put to death, and brought him up as one of the number who will have a chance of salvation after death, after he had rejected it; after he had the apostles killed, had thousands of Christians burned at the stake, had his own mother killed, and was said to be the meanest man that ever lived on this earth; and to talk about that man, after rejecting on such offered terms of mercy as that, to say that that man will have another chance of salvation is a travesty on common sense, to say nothing about the word of God.

I want it to go into the record in the book that is to be published, because his followers down in Texas all positively declare that he teaches that those who have a chance in this life will not have a chance in the life to come. Here we have it that he has given that contemptible wretch Nero, who had all kinds of chances, even after killing apostles, and killing his own mother, that he will have a chance, and he has him saved eternally in the millennial kingdom. This will be a resurrection of the old spirit of persecution, and will not take place until after the thousand years are finished, but will occur before the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I close at the present time on the negative argument, only as I shall introduce it in connection with the arguments he presented.

I want to remind you, now, that we are going to have some debating at this time.

The two nights I was in the affirmative I did my very best to get the gentleman to take up the arguments that I presented, and at least undertake to answer them, but he made no attempt at all. One of his brethren last night made the very feeble excuse that he did not have time to answer the eighteen questions that I wrote out and furnished him an exact copy of. He took enough time to answer those questions, if he could have done it, which was doubted, by quoting about that fellow that sold whisky to the negroes down in Mississippi, and you will notice in this speech that Elder Russell has noticed that I presented a good many arguments in my first speeches and insisted upon his noticing them. He did not do it'did not even attempt it. Now he has tried to reel off a whole string of things and talk very fast, hoping to give me something to do. It is not how fast you talk, Elder, but it is what a man says in debate, that counts.

I am now going to take up your speech and follow it where you go. So far as fast talking is concerned, I don't know of anything that can talk much faster than a parrot; so it is what a fellow says, not how fast ** he may say it.

He quoted many Scriptures, and I am glad he did. I am glad he put a little enthusiasm in his speech this time; but not one of the Scriptures that he read or quoted even hint at the idea of anybody having a chance to be saved after the resurrection. If he will read one Scripture, just one, any-where in the Book of God that says anybody will have a chance of salvation after the resurrection from the dead, I will surrender this debate, advise everybody in this audience to become a disciple of Mr. Russell, will go back to Texas on the first train that will take me back, and go to preaching the same doctrine there. Now you have the opportunity.

He said in the opening of his speech that it was the [HG241] resurrection of the soul, not of the body. Notice that he positively declared that the resurrection was not a resurrection of the body. 1 Cor. 15:42-44, I read in answer to that: "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It"'what? The body?'" is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body." It is the resurrection of the body. Elder Russell tells us this body is the church. I deny it. It is our physical body. If it was the church, then the church would be sown in corruption. Whatever "body" it is here that is sown, it is sown in corruption. I thank God that the church of the living God is not sown in corruption. Nay, verily l Did you know that nothing can be raised except that which dies? There has to be a death before there can be a resurrection. It is the body that dies; consequently it is the body that will be resurrected. The spirit does not die; consequently the spirit never will be resurrected.

Then he said that our bodies are completely changed every seven years. That being true, if Elder Russell has been married twenty-eight years, his wife has had four husbands. (She may not have any now.) Did you know that our spirits stay like they are all the time, that immortal principle within us never dies? These bodies may waste and go to decay, but it is the same person at last.

I take it that Elder Russell was C. T. Russell twenty-eight years ago; I take it that he was C. T. Russell fourteen years ago; I take it that he was C. T. Russell seven years ago, and I take it that he is C. T. Russell tonight.

But he told us in reference to death that the first step is death, and the second step is redemption, and the third is the resurrection. In your "Millennial Dawn" series, brother, you have it the first step is death, and then after Jesus Christ offered the little flock an opportunity of being saved, then will come the resurrection, and after the resurrection you will have the redemption. Why is it that you have changed.? What brought about this change? Is it because you are in debate now, and because you have a man to answer you? God passed the sentence of death upon the human family, and then he offered redemption through the Lord Jesus Christ.

After that time we die; after death we are resurrected; then we go to stand before God as we went out of this life. If we die unprepared, we will go into the judgment unprepared. But he refers unto the resurrection of Jesus, which I have already called your attention to briefly; but I want to know of the gentleman what it was of Jesus that was raised up? He tells us in "Millennial Dawn," Volume 2, pages 129-130, that Jesus was not raised from the dead'or, rather, that his body was spirited away somewhere, stored away, probably converted into gases; for he does not know just exactly what did become of him. Then I want to know, if the body of Jesus died, went down into the grave and was not resurrected, what part of Jesus was resurrected? You say it was not his body, for you say that was spirited away somewhere. It was not his spirit, for that became extinct, went into a state of non-existence, if you be correct. Yet the Bible positively declares in plain language that "this Jesus hath God raised up." Acts 2:32.

'The raising will be a gradual one," so says Elder Russell. In answer to that I read (1 Cor. 15:51-52), "Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep." That is, we shall not all die, but "we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump, for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." Elder Russell says the resurrection will be gradual. Paul, guided by the Spirit of God, says it shall be "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye." Here stands Paul on one side, who says it will be in a moment, and here stands Elder Russell on the other side, and says it will be gradual Which are you going to take? You know great men differ. Paul was one great character, who was guided by the Spirit, and he tells us that the dead shall be raised in a moment, and here is Elder Russell, another great character, who says it will be another way. I will leave it with you which you will take.

He tells us afterward that Christ was the first born from the dead. Certainly Christ was the first born from the dead. I wonder why he did not finish that verse (1 Cor. 15:22-23): "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order; Christ the firstfruits"'or the first one to rise from the dead to die no more'" afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." His resurrection is in the past; ours is in the future. Then he says that their resurrection life begins now. That is, the resurrection life of the saints. I deny every word of it, and demand of him to show the passage of Scripture that so teaches. My denial is equal unto his affirmation. Then he tells us that resurrection is salvation.

I want to give you a little syllogism on that. Just take his statement that resurrection is salvation:

1. Resurrection is salvation.

2. There shall be a resurrection of the just and the unjust. (Acts 24:15.)

3. Therefore, there will be a universal salvation at the resurrection.

And I have turned Elder Russell out of the "Millennial Dawn" Church this evening into the [HG242] Universalist Church. He is now a Universalist. [Laughter.] He has been denying that everybody will be saved. He says some of them will not be saved, but, according to his own logic, he is teaching universal salvation.

Then he told us that Christ was to be testified in due time. He has one "due bill" that he seems anxious to have come due, and I am going to take up his due bill, that he is expecting to come due pretty soon, and show him that his due bill became due more than eighteen hundred years ago. You know the Jews are still looking for the first coming of Christ, and Elder Russell is looking for a due bill that is already past. 1 Tim. 2:5-6: "For there is one God, and one mediator, between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

I want to read this also in the Revised Version: "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and man; the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all, that testimony be borne in its own time."

And the seventh verse. "Whereunto," says Paul, "I was appointed a preacher and an apostle, and speak the truth, and lie not, a teacher of the Gentiles, in faith and in truth."

That due time was the due time of the fulfillment of the prophecy concerning the first advent of the Lord Jesus Christ in the world, and Paul was saying that that due time was fulfilled back there, and he was a preacher preaching that very thing.

There is your due bill fulfilled over eighteen hundred years ago.

Elder Russell tells us that when Jesus Christ shall come, that we shall see him as he is, not as he was while he was here on earth. In answer to that I read the first chapter of the Acts of the Apostles, from the ninth unto the eleventh verses inclusive. This was after his resurrection and including his ascension to heaven: "And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." And Jesus, after he arose from the dead, says: "Look at me; see my hands and my feet; see that it is I myself, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." He had the same body that he had before he was crucified. It was brought back from the grave. He met with his disciples in that body, and that body was taken up into heaven. Those disciples saw Jesus go up until a cloud took him out of their sight, and the angels said unto them that they shall see him come in like manner as they have seen him go into heaven.

Therefore, we shall see Jesus as he was. Thank God for it. And the apostle John says that "every eye shall see him, and they also that pierced him, and all kingdoms and nations of the earth shall wail because of him." (Rev. 1:7.) Then he referred us to John 5:29, and said that that translation is seriously at fault, when Jesus told us that the wicked shall be resurrected unto eternal damnation. He thinks anything is at fault when it has damnation in it. It seems to me that he is about the scariest man about damnation that I ever saw. Why is this? John says that "perfect love casteth out fear, and that fear hath torment." (1 John 4:18.) That is the reason a fellow has fear in this life sometimes'it is lack of love, perfect love'tormented, you know, before the time. "And they shall come forth, they that have done good unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation."

But take it "judgment," as he requested it shall be. All right; I showed you in the first part of this address that Jesus Christ would come at the general judgment, at the general resurrection, and there would be no chance of salvation at that particular time, for I showed you from various passages of Scripture that the wicked would be condemned when Jesus Christ comes back into this earth.

So he would be just as wrong to have that passage "judgment" as to have it "damnation," because they will be condemned anyway. Then he tells us that the Lord has appointed a day in which he will judge the world. I wonder why this change? He has been teaching us in his books that the Lord is going to have a thousand years in which to judge the world. Now he tells us, when he is in debate, that the Lord will have a day. Why is the change? If it is a day, it is not going to be a thousand years, and if it is a thousand years, it is not going to be a day.

The mere awakening of the dead, he tells us, is not a resurrection. I want you to be sure and get that point, that the mere awakening of the dead is not resurrection.

Rev. 20:12-15: "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell"'Hades'" delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

I want to ask the gentleman to tell us when the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and when death and Hades delivered up the dead which were in them. [HG243] If it was not the awakening of their dead bodies, pray, then, tell us what it was.

Will he answer that question?

Then he referred unto Dan. 12:2, that some shall awake unto everlasting life and some unto everlasting damnation. "Many of them," says Daniel, "that sleep in the dust of the earth"'are dead'" shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

I am much obliged to you for that text, for it positively declares that some that are to be resurrected will be resurrected unto everlasting life, and some to everlasting shame and contempt, thus saying that those who are not prepared at the resurrection will have no opportunity of salvation after they are resurrected from the dead.

Then, in the next place, he calls your attention to Acts 3:19-21, where the apostle declares that the heavens must receive Jesus till the time of restitution of all things. I want to read just a little further on that, and show that he is teaching you the opposite from what we gather from this passage of Scripture. "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive"'or retain'" until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." What was his argument? If I understood the argument that he intended to make from this passage of Scripture, it is that after awhile Jesus is going to come back to this earth, and there will be a thousand years of restitution; that Jesus Christ will restore all things lost. But Peter says that he is in heaven, and the heavens must receive (or retain) him until the restitution of all things, showing that after Jesus Christ has come back to this earth there will be no thousand years' restitution that he is talking unto you about. But what is the idea, as advanced by the apostle? It is this: These things were spoken of by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. They prophesied the great work that should be done in the reign of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is now King of kings and Lord of lords. He has established his kingdom, notwithstanding Elder Russell teaches you that his kingdom is not yet established. I wrote him that I should affirm one proposition in this debate, stated in about this way: "The Scriptures teach that the kingdom of God was established on the first Pentecost after the ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ."

He wrote back to me and said he was not prepared to deny that proposition, for he said he admitted that in a sense the kingdom of God was established on the day of Pentecost. And so do 1 And the time will come when the gospel of Jesus Christ will reach the remotest bounds of earth'not after the resurrection of bodies, but before the resurrection of bodies. Christ's resurrection, he tells us in "Millennial Dawn," took place in 1874'the latter part of October, he says. Then if Christ's resurrection took place in 1874, I insist that the heavens are not retaining him now. He told us in his speech that heaven was retaining Jesus Christ, and would retain him until this final time of restoration; but he tells us in his "Millennial Dawn" series that Jesus Christ carne back to this earth in the latter part of October, 1874. Therefore, according to his statement, the heavens certainly are not retaining Jesus Christ until all things are restored.

Then he said the law that will be presented to the people in the thousand-year period will be the same as that presented unto us. That being true, folks who will not hear the gospel, and will not believe it and obey it in this life, will not accept it in the life to come. Jesus says, "Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life," and says that they have dosed their eyes, and stopped their ears, and hardened their hearts, lest they should hear with their ears, and see with their eyes, and believe with their hearts, that the Lord should heal them'not because they did not have power to do it, but because they would not do it. That is the idea in this matter exactly.

The narrow way, he says, is the only way open to us in this life. In the millennial age the highway will be opened to us. But Jesus says (John 14:6), "I am the way, the truth and the life." In John 10:9, Jesus says he is the door; by him if any man enter in, he shall be saved. We have the way now; Jesus Christ is the way. I thank God we do not have to wait until the millennial age to find the way. Jesus Christ is this highway of holiness, and if you ever enter heaven at all it will be by this highway of holiness, by the way of the Lord Jesus Christ. I want to point you to the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. He is your only hope of salvation, by loving obedience unto him. Heb. 5:9, "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." Do not put the matter off until that long, dreamy something called the millennium to have a chance then, because you will not get that chance then. You have the chance now.

Let me beg of you to accept it; love God; believe in Jesus Christ; obey him and be saved, and then we will go all over this country teaching the love of God, obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ, salvation according to the plan established by the Lord Jesus Christ, and so God's promise will become true that the time will come when "the knowledge of the Lord shall cover the earth as the waters cover the sea."

[HG244]
C. T. RUSSELL'S SECOND SPEECH.

I did not quite finish my argument. I will continue. Mark the Scriptural declarations on this subject: Rev. 15:4: "Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? For thou only art holy; for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest."

Philip. 2:9-11: "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name; that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Rev. 5:13: "And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth. and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing and honor and glory and power be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb, for ever and ever."

How glad we should be that God will wipe away all tears from off all faces; that his tabernacle shall be with men, and that there shall be no more curse, no more dying, no more sighing, no more crying. How glad we shall be that the angel's message at the time of the Redeemer's birth shall be fulfilled: "Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be unto all people; for unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour," literally, a life-giver, one who will give life to the world, to so many of them as will receive it; but all the wicked will he destroy.

I am sorry, dear friends, in some respects, that my presentation of matters never seems to suit my opponent. I can not help this. I might perhaps return the compliment, and say that his presentations do not always suit me. But that perhaps may not be wondered at. I am sorry I have not pleased him all the way through in every particular. You will notice, dear friends, that the agreement of this debate is as you have it in the program in your hands. That is the ground upon which we are debating and discussing.

Our dear brother seems to think that I took some advantage of him last night, but I remind this audience, and remind the brother, that that is not my fault. He was in the affirmative; the subject was his affirmation, not mine. He made the affirmative, which I deny. Besides this, you will remember our dear brother seems to think he knows all that I believe a great deal better than I do myself. I do not know what he believes, except as he tells us here, but he says that he knows all that I believe. He says he has read "Millennial Dawn." I do not think he has.

[Laughter.] I am willing, dear friends, to leave the matter as to how the brother treats "Millennial Dawn," and what kinds of things he gets out of it. I leave that to the intelligence of the people who have "Millennial Dawn," that have read it.

There are about seven thousand volumes of "Millennial Dawn" in your city. Quite a good many of you have them, and there are over two million copies of "Millennial Dawn" in the hands of the people of the United States, and they are being printed at the rate of twelve thousand books every day; and they are printed in six languages and being prepared in four more. The people will find out what is in "Millennial Dawn" despite our dear brother. I wish he would open his eyes a little; I had some hope of him, as I suggested at the beginning, but I have not much hope of him now.

Our dear brother thought I said last night that Lazarus represented the Gentile nations and that I said that all the Gentile nations got into Abraham's bosom. I was not so foolish as that, my dear brethren. I was telling you if that was a literal statement, our dear brother does not take it as a parable, then if it was a literal statement, when Lazarus got into Abraham's bosom there would not be much room for the rest of us. There have been eighteen hundred years since, and some of us just as good as Lazarus have died since; some that did not have sores, or dogs to lick the sores, but some just as good as Lazarus, and if this were a literal statement there would be no room for them in Abraham's bosom at all. We tried to show you that this was a parable. The rich man represented the Jewish nation, and Lazarus represented those Gentiles who were outcasts from the commonwealth of Israel, as the apostle put it, those who were outside the pale.

You will remember that the apostle tells us on this subject that there was a middle wall, or partition, around the Jewish nation, for over sixteen hundred years. They, as a nation, from the time of the law down to the rejection of Jesus, had the special favor of God, and in this way they had the wall around them, so that the poor Gentiles could not get over or under that wall. You will remember the Syrophoenician woman. She was a Gentile. She came to Jesus; she wanted her daughter healed because she was afflicted with a demon. What did Jesus say to her? Jesus said, "It is not meet to take the bread from the children's table and give it unto dogs." He was classing her as one of the dogs. Jesus gives us this illustration himself. All Gentiles seeking the favor of God, yet unable to come to God, were in this sense of the word pictured by Lazarus, the companion of dogs, in this parable. Then the day came when there was a change of dispensation, and the Jewish nation died as respects the favor and privileges and blessing they had had for sixteen hundred years. Then God's favor turned and passed to [HG245] those Jews ready to receive Christ, those "Israelites indeed in whom there was no guile," as we read in John 1:10: "He came unto his own, and his own received him not; but as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sous of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

These were the ones that he received, all those Jews. After that the favor of God was sent amongst the Gentiles. You remember Cornelius was the first Gentile convert, and he was converted seven years after our Lord began his ministry. The favor was limited to the Jewish nation for a certain time. You remember the apostle Paul again in says, "It was necessary that the gospel should be preached first unto you," then afterwards according to God's arrangement it turned so that the Jews were left outside as a nation and the Gentiles who were in the right condition to receive the Lord's favor became the children of Abraham. I have not the time to discuss this subject to-night; that will be part of our subject next Sunday afternoon, "The oath of God to Abraham and his seed."

I pass on to notice the rich man's five brethren. Our brother does not seem to see how there could be any five brethren if that rich man were the Jewish nation. I will remind you, dear friends, that the nation of Israel originally consisted of twelve tribes, and you will remember at the time of the dispersion in Babylon they were divided at that time; ten tribes constituted Israel, and the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin were called the tribe of Judah, and in the return from Babylon of the ten tribes very few came back, though representatives of them all came; but those who came back were principally the two tribes. So, then, the rich man of our Lord's time represented the tribes of Judah and Benjamin especially, so that the two were represented by the one man, and the ten remaining were represented by the five brethren, the same proportion, you see'five representing ten and two representing one.

This was very appropriate, and shows that all the other Jews wanted to have the Lord's favor; must have it on the terms in harmony with the law and the prophets.

Our brother referred to the last day 'the judgment day' and said how many things were to take place there. And I answer, yes. The judgment day the dear brother does not seem to get the proper view of. "A day with the Lord is as a thousand years," says the apostle Peter, and he adds, "And I would not have you ignorant concerning it, brethren." Now, our dear brother is ignorant of it. He should not be. [Laughter.] Our brother tells us that he is waiting for the Lord Jesus to come quickly, and yet he tells us in the next breath that he can not come until a thousand years are completed. How does he know that he is to come quickly? A thousand years must come in between.

Our dear brother objects to another chance for Nero in the millennium. He says he has a chance. I do not think he ever had a chance, from God's standpoint under Christ, but I do not know. If he ever had a chance, he will never get another. But if he has had no chance because, blinded and weakened by depravity and unable to appreciate the principle of the truth along with the world in general, in harmony with what the apostle Paul tells us, "the god of this world has blinded the eyes of them that believe not," then he is entitled to a chance in the future. Whoever is of that class of blinded ones, whether they live in heathen lands or Christian lands, they are to have the blessing expressed by the apostle, "Jesus Christ, the mediator between God and man, who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time" to every man.

Our brother reminds us about Sodom, and I remind him again that the Lord says that in that day of judgment, the thousand years, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for Bethsaida and Chorazin.

Our brother speaks of bodies in the resurrection. I answer yes, of course they will come forth with bodies, but not with the same matter that was in their bodies before. You bury a man out there in the graveyard and plant an apple-tree over him, and the roots grow down and appropriate the matter in that body, and after awhile that matter goes into the apples, the apples fall on the ground, the pigs eat the apples and you eat the pigs, and thus the atoms constituting that body are distributed all over the world. You do not know where that matter has gone to.

The Lord never tells us we will get the same particles of matter back. The same atoms are not needed, but they will have bodies when they come forth, similar to the ones that went down into the tomb.

Our brother said there was nothing about the resurrection of the soul. I replied to that. You will remember I quoted you several times on this subject. The Lord says, respecting his experience: "Thou wilt not leave my soul in Hades, the grave."

L. S. WHITE'S SECOND REPLY.

Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen: Elder Russell says that I am ignorant. I am not going to take issue with him on that question. I remember when I was a boy that I read a story out of my mother's Bible where a great man named Goliath [HG246] went out and defied the armies of God for a long time. It was some time before any one could be found with courage enough to meet this brave Goliath. Finally poor, little, weak, ignorant David, with strong faith in God, decided he would meet the great Goliath'and the world knows the result l As the poor little David, I came all the way from Texas unto Cincinnati to be the little, weak, ignorant David, with strong faith in God, in the hands of God, to meet the giant Goliath on this field of battle. [Applause.] And at least the American people will know the result. [Applause.] And if he is not satisfied with this, if he will ever be able for another one, I kindly invite him to meet me in my own home in Dallas, Texas, in a twelve-days' discussion on these same propositions. [Applause.] After that is over, I want to meet him in a twelve-days' discussion on these propositions in his own home city, in Allegheny, Pa., where, after I complete the job, bury him as a debater, and preach his funeral, he will have plenty of friends to put flowers on his grave. [Applause.] There were two or three things in his first speech to-night that I did not get to when I was called down. He referred us to Rev. 21:3-5, about where the Lord said "that the tabernacle of God would be among men," and tried to prove from that, if I understood him, that the time would come in the millennial age that the tabernacle of God would be among men, and all people would have an opportunity of being saved. I turn your attention unto a statement in that same twenty-first chapter of Revelation, seventh and eighth verses. After reading the statement that he wrote I wondered why he did not read it. Simply because it was diametrically opposed to his theory. "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death"'Elder Russell to the contrary notwithstanding. [Applause.] Elder Russell teaches us that there will be eternal death of the body. The Bible says that these wicked people will be cast into the lake of fire which burneth with brimstone. I read you last night several passages of Scripture that said that in that lake of fire and brimstone there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, where their worm dieth not. I asked Brother Russell to tell us what the "worm" was that did not die in the fire after the people died. Why, he says, "it is the worm that eats the carcasses." What is the worm? We call them "maggots" down South. What are they? The people die; the people are mortal, they die, fall into a state of non-existence, and the only thing immortal that Brother Russell has left is IMMORTAL MAGGOTS.

Then he referred to Rom. 8:19, "The manifestation of the sons of God," and undertook to make the impression upon our minds that this manifestation of the sons of God will be the glory of God's people in the millennial kingdom. Paul says, "For the earnest expectation of the creature waited for the manifestation of the sons of God."

Elder Russell is mistaken. The "manifestation of the sons of God" spoken of here is the resurrection of our bodies from the grave. As I will show you in the twenty-second and twenty-third verses. "For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now; and not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit"'which is Jesus Christ, who is the first-born from the dead, the firstfruits of the Spirit'" even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to-wit, the redemption of our body." What is the adoption spoken of in this particular passage? "The redemption of our body."

Elder Russell tells us that our bodies will not be redeemed from the grave, but Paul teaches us that this manifestation of the sons of God is the redemption of our bodies; that is, the redemption of our bodies from the grave.

But he tells us that there shall be "good tidings" to all people, announced at the birth of Jesus Christ. (Luke 2:10.) Elder Russell tried to make the point that this would finally go unto all people, and that all people would hear the good tidings and accept the good tidings, but he tells us in his "Millennial Dawn" series that there will be some of them who will not be saved. Some of them will be lost, some of them will die eternally. I want to ask, will this be good tidings unto those who are lost in the millennial age? Certainly not. Then he tells us that there are twelve thousand "Millennial Dawns" printed every day. I take his word for it; I believe it is true. Then I read in the nineteenth chapter of Acts of the Apostles, nineteenth verse, in reply to that, that there were some people in the apostolic age that were using "curious arts," circulating many books and deceiving many people; and many of them were converted, and "many of those which used curious arts brought their books together and burned them before all men, and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver;" so those folks that had many books and curious arts in the apostolic age were even greater than those folks who have many books and curious arts now. [Laughter.]

Then he referred to the rich man and Lazarus again and said. "If Lazarus went into Abraham's bosom, [HG247] there was not much room for the rest of us." I wonder, great man that he is, if he is not well enough informed to know that "Abraham's bosom" was a common expression among the Jews in that age of the world, referring to paradise as the place where the departed spirits of the righteous dead were, and that was where Lazarus had gone? I thank God for this example.